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  • Smart collection and label (tag)...

    Hello!
    I decided to forget completely Lightroom. Now, my pictures are managed by Acdsee pro 10...

    I'm having a problem creating smart collection with coloured tag (label ?) -- I have a french version of Acdsee because... I am french, and I don't know the exact matching of the items (and my english is approximate...).

    Creating a smart collection, I can't choose to exclude two colours. I can't say
    Label (tag) is not Red
    Label (tag) is not Purple.
    (I want all the pictures which the colour of the label is neither red nor purple).

    If I choose the criteria label (tag) for a second time, Acdsee says "Already in use" (something like that). It is frustrating.

    Is it a known problem ?

    Thank you.

    Alaric

  • #2
    Unfortunately, the price for ACDSee's speed is getting rid of the relational search methodologies you learned in Lightroom! Complex "NOT" logic is difficult to implement in a simple hierarchical database suitable for running on a wide variety of PC types. I think though, that once you get used to the different mind set, you will find that ACDSee offers a rich DAM environment that can meet all your needs.

    You might want to take a look at the article I wrote on collections and searching in my personal blog called USING SMART COLLECTIONS.

    For a quick answer, since your colors example is a known universe of colors, I would use the search phrase "IS ANY OF" or "CONTAINS", and list the specific colors I was looking for. Sometimes, combining a search with the "filter" and "group" functions of the Manage tab's display window will be the fastest way of finding what you want.
    Last edited by Glen Barrington; 08-02-2017, 03:44 AM.

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    • #3
      This is a know limitation of the search functions and Selective Collections. The programmer must have been stoned when he coded this, or should be stoned if not!

      As work around you may use the "Easy Select" feature:

      Click image for larger version

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      The "Easy Select" symbols can be enabled in the Options (ALT+O).

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Emil View Post
        This is a know limitation of the search functions and Selective Collections. The programmer must have been stoned when he coded this, or should be stoned if not!
        I suspect the problem is creating a hierarchical DB that can run on a wide variety of PCs of unknown capabilities. To implement complex "NOT" logic in a hierarchical database would require multiple passes through the diminishing possible choices, You need to save the results of the first pass through the DB in active memory then search that portion of memory for subsequent not conditions, getting rid of non matching initial hits on the fly.

        It's not only difficult to create an array in memory of unknown dimensions that will run on every PC, but the logic required to know how to break up the "NOT" logic clauses for accurate searching is very difficult if you don't know exactly the capabilities of the computer in question. And getting the search order 'right' can affect the accuracy of the search in some cases, as would the size of the original database.

        All this slows down the system, and on some already marginal PCs it could cause fatal crashes.

        Relational systems were designed to do all this on the fly, but as we have seen in Lightroom, this searching flexibility comes at the price of speed.and the number of assets that it can practically manage. It appears that ACDSee has created an environment that can not only run quickly on a variety of PC configurations but which can find just about anything you might need in managing your database, but it comes at the cost of thinking about searches in a slightly different manner.

        Life is full of compromises, and this is one of them, I'm afraid.
        Last edited by Glen Barrington; 08-02-2017, 04:17 AM.

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        • #5
          Thank you for your answers.

          In my case, I can't select several colours, because I have other criterias in the smart collection.

          I do not understand why there is "Contains" but not "Not contains"; why each Acdsee metadata can be use once.

          I think that Acdsee should adapt to the user. The difficulty to create a DB is not the problem of the user. In this case, yes, we are going to compromise, but I think that is a real gap. I have to put up with that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Glen Barrington View Post
            To implement complex "NOT" logic in a hierarchical database would require multiple passes through the diminishing possible choices, You need to save the results of the first pass through the DB in active memory then search that portion of memory for subsequent not conditions, getting rid of non matching initial hits on the fly.
            Yepp. and in the last 30 years plenty of concepts have been written and dozens of libraries ready for use have been created to allow full boolean search. Nowadays even on line searches using scripts allow this and are faster then AC.

            It appears that ACDSee has created an environment that can not only run quickly ..
            Quickly? A "quick search" of course takes it's time. But a quick search for two keywords with OR doubles the search time. Smart goes different!
            Last edited by Emil; 08-02-2017, 08:03 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Alaric View Post
              In my case, I can't select several colours, because I have other criterias in the smart collection.
              Selective Collections and Easy Select can be combined. First set up your Selective Collection as needed (as far as possible) and use it. Then use Easy Select to filter any further.


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              • #8
                I'm not sure I understand...

                Is selective collection the same as smart collection ?

                If yes, then, when I select colours, the selection is carried out on ALL my pictures, not on the result of my smart collection.

                But your answer helps me to find that... Is it what you mean ?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Alaric View Post
                  Is selective collection the same as smart collection ?
                  Oops, yes I mistyped this and also forgot to mention an important function, sorry.

                  First define your "other criteria" in a Smart Collection and enable Selective Search (CTRL+SHIFT+L)
                  Then Easy Select your labels in the Catalogue pane (CTRL-SHIFT-2)
                  Next click your previously defined Selective Collection

                  Here's screen shot:

                  Click image for larger version

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                  I do have 756 items with ISO 3200 to ISO 6400 and 79321 items with the label "Pro5 bearbeitet". But there's only 6 items that share both criteria.
                  Last edited by Emil; 08-03-2017, 02:07 AM.

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                  • #10
                    I understand better now. Thank you.
                    I proceed slightly differently.
                    On the screen shot,
                    I = The smart collection = recent pictures (raw) I want to convert (jpg) and put on my NAS.

                    But I don't want to convert the pictures tagged "red" and "purple" (II), and I can't exclude them in my smart collection.
                    I have 119 pictures tagged red; 82 tagged purple.

                    I want to convert the rest of my pictures : 1015 without color label (III).

                    I can see them via the Selective Search (IV).

                    So, I click the part I am interested in ("Sans étiquette - 1015 éléments"), I select the pictures with the mouse (not CTRL+A) and I convert them.


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                    • #11
                      I have just discovered that I can then filter the result to display the pictures without colour label. So I can select them with Control+A.

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                      • #12
                        In fact, it is more direct to filter the pictures (= without coloured label in my case) immediately after the result given by the Smart Collection (without resorting to the Selective Collection)...

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