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Keywords not embedding in Mac Studio 7.1 ???

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  • Keywords not embedding in Mac Studio 7.1 ???

    I realise keywords cannot be embedded in RAW files, but when I use Tools > Metadata > Embed Metadata in All Files, I can't find the keywords in IPTC Core, IPTC Legacy, or IPTC Extended - in TIFF or JPEG files either.
    Am I doing something wrong?
    I always delete Orphans before Embedding (otherwise the App crashes).
    I'm watching Adam's 'Categories & Keywords - Workshop' on YouTube and I noticed he has an IPTC tab in Properties. I don't have a tab which is purely IPTC. Presumablythe Mac version is different to whatever Adam is using??

  • #2
    Hi Andy,

    ACDSee offers two ways to add info to files: ACDSee metadata and IPTC metadata. Embed Metadata in All Files takes the ACDSee metadata you've assigned to a photo (which is stored in the ACDSee database) and writes it to the file/sidecar itself. One reason for doing this is to backup the info.

    On the other hand, IPTC metadata is always written to file at the time you apply it. So if you wish to add IPTC keywords, there's no need to use Embed Metadata in All Files. You can access the IPTC metadata view in the Properties pane via the dropdown immediately below the Organize/Properties buttons (make sure you've selected a file that supports IPTC, such as RAW, JPG, TIFF, etc).

    Regards,
    David

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks David, but you seem to have missed my point.
      From my limited experience with the app so far, it appears much quicker to add keywords (and sub-keywords) via ACDSee Metadata - but when I use Tools > Metadata > Embed Metadata in All Files, it doesn't seem to work. The keywords don't show in the keywords box in Properties.

      I can't find a specific IPTC tab in the dropdown - all I can find there is IPTC Core, IPTC Legacy, or IPTC Extended. Can you confirm which tab my keywords should appear in after embedding them? Or have I got all this wrong?
      Andy

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Andy,

        ACDSee keywords and IPTC keywords are separate things, so if you enter keywords via ACDSee metadata then they will stay as ACDSee keywords, and they will not appear in any IPTC tab. Similarly, if you embed ACDSee metadata, it will be embedded as ACDSee metadata, it will not become IPTC metadata. Maybe I'm not understanding what your end goal is?

        Regards,
        David

        Comment


        • #5
          Before ACDSee, I used Capture 1. I spent a great many hours adding keywords to my collection of well over 70,000 images before finding that C1 just couldn't cope with anything like that number of pictures. For that reason, I searched around for an alternative, and it looked as though ACDSee might be what I was looking for.
          Sadly, I was unable to find a way to transfer my keywords from C1 to ACDSee, so I started adding them again from scratch! This time I wanted to add them in a way which could be read (and utilised) by another application if the need arose.
          Tools > Metadata > Embed Metadata in All Files (and watching YouTube videos about the app) gave me the impression that ACDSee metadata can be embedded in image files, but from your replies this isn't the case?
          If it ISN'T the case, why do I see a warning that Metadata will appear as sidecar files for images which don't support embedded metadata?
          Andy
          Last edited by andynick; 05-11-2021, 11:00 PM. Reason: (Added paragraph about sidecar files).

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Andy,

            Embedding ACDSee Keywords will embed the keywords to the file itself (or to a sidecar file in the case of RAW files since ACDSee treats RAW files as read-only). The keywords will be embedded as ACDSee keywords, not as IPTC keywords. I understand you are associating embedding ACDSee metadata with sharing and compatibility with other apps, but that is not the intention of embedding. ACDSee keywords are specific to ACDSee, so to maximize compatibility with other apps, IPTC keywords would be more effective.

            It's possible to copy the ACDSee keywords to IPTC via the Batch > Set Information tool (see screenshot attached), but there is a caveat: the keyword hierarchy would be lost.

            Regards,
            David

            Click image for larger version

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            Attached Files

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            • #7
              That's disappointing David, but thanks for your explanation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by andynick View Post
                That's disappointing David, but thanks for your explanation.
                So, andynick,
                How did you move forward given the answer you received? Interested in this conversation too, since migration is an important consideration...
                Calo

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Calo View Post
                  So, andynick,
                  How did you move forward given the answer you received? Interested in this conversation too, since migration is an important consideration...
                  Calo
                  I'm very disappointed, but not sure what I can do about it.
                  ACDSee has been a great application for me. It's enabled me to find many files which (since using Lightroom and then Capture 1) I thought I had lost. It makes media management simple and straightforward for me, but the thought of having to go through many thousands of images to add keywords yet again, is not a pleasant one.
                  I can't help feeling that not allowing the application to truly embed metadata is a decision made by the app developers, rather than something forced upon them, but that's just my feeling, and not based on any evidence.
                  Either way, I'm on the lookout for an application that WILL import, and embed metadata - and I'd be very grateful for any suggestions from others.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    andynick ,
                    I hear you. About 6 weeks ago, I started looking for my first Digital Asset Management software. I had never used one before.
                    I use Google Backup and Restore with Google Drive, and I was really hoping NOT to have to do any keywords and just let Google Photos or some similar application find the images I was searching for with their AI algorithms. Google is actually very powerful in bringing back the photos you are searching for, even down to "white heron" and so forth. But, Google required all photos go into a database, had horrible backup and export capabilities, and other shortcomings.

                    So, I started looking for DAM software. After numerous (probably over 50 hours) of trial testing, reading and researching, here are a few thoughts I have.
                    IF you want to create keywords that can live independent of a specific DAM software, meaning the keywords will be recognized by other DAM software programs, then IPTC keywords give you the best chance for "your keyword data being your data" and not being locked in behind a proprietary keyword method. This MAY NOT BE A TRUE STATEMENT for ALL CASES of moving from one DAM software program to another, but in my experience that's what it looks like.
                    Here's one example test:
                    Photo Supreme can see ACDSee IPTC keywords that are applied AND ACDSee can see Photo Supreme IPTC keywords.
                    Photo Supreme (works on PC and Mac) ONLY uses IPTC keyword data methods, and they proudly proclaim on their website at https://www.idimager.com:
                    "Metadata standards: Photo Supreme is built with the underlying concept: "Your data is Your data". Therefore it is a number one priority to adopt and follow the metadata standards: IPTC, Exif, XMP, and MWG. This way Photo Supreme won't lock you in..."

                    I also hear iMatch (Windows only) at https://www.photools.com/imatch/ is worth a look. But, I am a Mac user since the M1 chip came out, so I don't know first hand, only from what I've read.

                    Of course, there are many other DAM software programs - I'm sure you can imagine and have seen - that I looked at. Of the 8 plus different programs I looked at, all had some shortcoming or another. Photo Supreme is really nice, but I found it awkward and not as intuitive or fast as ACDSee.

                    One issue I haven't resolved is finding a DAM that can work from any device (as a server solution, or maybe as companion software products within one company which can sync with each other). I'm particularly needing something that will work on an M1 Mac Mini AND and M1 iPad 2021.

                    How I'm moving forward (as it stands right now):
                    I purchased ACDSee a few weeks back and am probably going to stick with it. It is easy to understand and works with all kind of software files, and it is fast. I WILL look to use it in a way that doesn't lock me in. I'm thinking I will either:
                    1. Use IPTC data only (thereby reducing the risk of being locked in)
                    OR
                    2. Do both ACDSee keywords AND run a batch program to update the IPTC fields as David@ACD say above in this thread. Or, do IPTC keywords then batch update the ACDSee database. I will limit the use of hierarchies and possibly NOT use Categories.

                    Best on making your decision. I would be interested in how you move forward!
                    Calo

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
                      Hi Andy,

                      Embedding ACDSee Keywords will embed the keywords to the file itself (or to a sidecar file in the case of RAW files since ACDSee treats RAW files as read-only). The keywords will be embedded as ACDSee keywords, not as IPTC keywords. I understand you are associating embedding ACDSee metadata with sharing and compatibility with other apps, but that is not the intention of embedding. ACDSee keywords are specific to ACDSee, so to maximize compatibility with other apps, IPTC keywords would be more effective.

                      It's possible to copy the ACDSee keywords to IPTC via the Batch > Set Information tool (see screenshot attached), but there is a caveat: the keyword hierarchy would be lost.

                      Regards,
                      David

                      Click image for larger version  Name:	Monosnap 2021-05-12 16-39-25.png Views:	45 Size:	519.5 KB ID:	56313

                      David,
                      Would you please comment on these 2 questions:

                      I purchased ACDSee a few weeks back and am probably going to stick with it. It is easy to understand and works with all kind of software files, and it is fast.

                      Question #1:
                      How can I best use ACDSee in a way that doesn't lock me in if I want to move to another DAM software down the road?

                      I'm thinking I will either:
                      1. Use IPTC data only (thereby reducing the risk of being locked in)
                      OR
                      2. Do both ACDSee keywords AND run a batch program to update the IPTC fields as your suggest in your thread. Or, do IPTC keywords then batch update the ACDSee database. I will limit the use of hierarchies and possibly NOT use Categories.
                      What are your thoughts please?

                      Question #2:
                      One issue I haven't resolved is finding a DAM that can work from any device. Can you tell me how I can best use ACDSee with my desktop M1 Mac Mini AND my M1 iPadPro 2021? Is there a server solution, or maybe as companion software product within ACD for iPadPro 2021 which can sync with my desktop?

                      Thank you,
                      Calo
                      Last edited by Calo; 06-05-2021, 10:23 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Calo,

                        Question #1:
                        How can I best use ACDSee in a way that doesn't lock me in if I want to move to another DAM software down the road?
                        For compatibility, IPTC is the way to go since it's the standard. Using ACDSee keywords has benefits, i.e. it provides a browsable keyword list that you can also manage (e.g. add/remove, rename, import/export, etc). If your workflow is keyword-driven, then the extra step of using ACDSee keywords then batch applying them to IPTC may be worth it.



                        Question #2:
                        One issue I haven't resolved is finding a DAM that can work from any device. Can you tell me how I can best use ACDSee with my desktop M1 Mac Mini AND my M1 iPadPro 2021? Is there a server solution, or maybe as companion software product within ACD for iPadPro 2021 which can sync with my desktop?
                        We have a mobile app called Mobile Sync (available on iOS and Android) that syncs photos from your mobile device to your computer running ACDSee, but currently only Windows is supported. We're considering adding this to the ACDSee Mac version as well, please stay tuned.

                        For a DAM that works from any device, please check out 365.acdsee.com, which is a web-based solution for digital asset management and storage, however it is not exactly equivalent to the desktop app.

                        Hope this helps.

                        Regards,
                        David

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