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noise reduction not applied raw->jpeg? bug?

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  • Trevor
    replied
    Originally posted by Tristan H View Post
    Hi Trevor,

    Noise Reduction is always applied before Sharpening in Develop mode, for exactly the reasons you and Edvard have stated. From what I understand, even if you were to sharpen first for some reason, then reduce noise, the final result would still apply Noise Reduction first.

    Thanks,
    Tristan H.
    ACD Systems
    Thanks Tristan , that confirms what I had expected

    edit: one thing for sure is that careful positioning of the sliders for the Mask (sharpening) and Preserve Detail Threshold (noise reduction) are paramount to getting the best results. It can help here to switch off sharpening while positioning the threshold slider. Perhaps this is what Edvard had referred to previously?

    Another thing, that I have never understood and my question about it in this forum was never answered, is what effect exactly does the Detail and Threshold sliders have in the sharpening tool ?
    Pressing the "Alt" key, while using these sliders, shows me nothing?

    Tristan can you help here too please.
    Last edited by Trevor; 02-04-2020, 12:48 AM.

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  • Tristan H
    replied
    Hi Trevor,

    Noise Reduction is always applied before Sharpening in Develop mode, for exactly the reasons you and Edvard have stated. From what I understand, even if you were to sharpen first for some reason, then reduce noise, the final result would still apply Noise Reduction first.

    Thanks,
    Tristan H.
    ACD Systems

    Leave a comment:


  • Trevor
    replied
    Originally posted by Edvard View Post
    Trevor, I always reduce noise before sharpenig in Develop mode. Sharpening increases the noise, but I don't want that.
    Edvard, we both agree it would be a good idea to do the noise reduction first, before sharpening.
    BUT
    Let me question the way ACDSee is doing this for you in DEVELOP MODE when creating the final image,...
    As you most probably know, in Develop mode ACDSee leaves the original image alone and creates a separarte file with all your adjustments e.g. how it should be cropped, rotated, exposure changes, colour adjustements, noise and sharpening settings, etc etc.

    ACDSee applies these settings in some order to the original image to show you the developed result.

    How do you know in which order your settings are being applied?
    Are you assuming they will be aplied in the order you made them ?
    I doubt that it works like that, and so I'm asking an ACDSee Admin if they can tell us for sure in what order sharpening and noise reduction are applied by ACDSee in develop mode? I'm hoping it's "noise reduction first"


    Of course, in EDIT mode you can determine the order it happens on your own
    Last edited by Trevor; 02-02-2020, 03:06 PM.

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  • Edvard
    replied
    Trevor, I always reduce noise before sharpenig in Develop mode. Sharpening increases the noise, but I don't want that.

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  • Trevor
    replied
    Originally posted by Edvard View Post
    Personally, I always reduce noise before sharpening. While reducing the noise, I press left Alt to see where the noise suppression works
    This is a good idea in EDIT mode.
    In DEVELOP mode you can't determine the "order" that anything is applied, this is done somehow in some order by the ACDSee program?
    I would hope that the noise reduction is applied before the sharpening, but I don't know

    Can any ACDSee admin here confirm what order is used in develop mode ?
    Last edited by Trevor; 02-02-2020, 02:27 AM.

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  • Edvard
    replied
    Personally, I always reduce noise before sharpening. While reducing the noise, I press left Alt to see where the noise suppression works

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  • markusf
    replied
    Thanks for the answers. The effect seems highly connected to the color noise. If I put the slider to 100% then the differences between the jpeg and the view in the develope mode is the smallest. If it is about 90% it is a clear difference between the view and the output. I have to admit that the the sample pictures are ISO12800. But nevertheless I want to see what i get., View in develop mode and highest quality jpeg should be the nearly the same. It is clear that there is an addional effect from the jpeg conversion, but if I am right i would expect less details, means less noise in jpeg.

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  • Trevor
    replied
    It works OK for me.

    Looking at your 2 examples I can see a very clear difference between them.

    I tried the same with an Olympus RAW image (OMD EM1.2). Took quite noisy image and applied suitable noise reduction and found almost no difference between the view on the screen that I get in develop mode and after saving the same image as a jpg. If you look very very closely at these 2 images there are a few tiny differences but I think these are just the "unavoidable" jpg errors and nothing like the effect you show in your link

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  • njlarsen
    replied
    I do not know how much this will help, but try: open the raw file after develop in edit mode - does it look OK there? Next, right click the save button use save a copy and give it a new name in jpg format -- did that look like it should?

    Niels

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  • GusPanella
    replied
    I just tried a sample D7200 NEF file that I found here.
    https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRO...C_0243.NEF.HTM

    ACD NR worked as expected.... export worked correctly, too. I did notice it too about 3 seconds for the thumbnail to update. Same with the View Mode (about 3 seconds to update)

    I wonder if it is possible the thumbnail and/or the View Mode isn't updating like it is suppose to?

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  • GusPanella
    replied
    Something seems strange. I am not a big fan of the ACD noise reduction, but my experience is much better than what you are seeing.

    Here is an example of what I see. Before/After with ISO25600 @200% zoom in Ult 2020
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d4h...ew?usp=sharing


    The settings shown are more agressive than what I typically do.
    This image with export correctly.

    This being said, I certainly believe there is a problem somewhere. But not sure where to start trouble shooting.

    I'll look around to find a D7200 RAW file to try to repeat?
    (I doubt this is file related, but this would tell us for sure that we need to look somewhere else.)

    BEst



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  • markusf
    started a topic noise reduction not applied raw->jpeg? bug?

    noise reduction not applied raw->jpeg? bug?

    I use Nikon D7200, raw fotos and Ultimate 2020, but had this problem also in 2019 version.

    I use the develope mode and make de-noising and sharpening to get a perfect view of the raw foto in develope mode. I save the changes and make an export to jpeg in maximum quality, but the result is much worse than what I see in the view of the develope mode. It seems that the de-noising is not or only partly applied (sharpening yes, de-noising???). Especially when the foto has ISO800 and more, whenever I switch between Develope mode and view mode, after apllying all changes, the difference is visible on first sight. All changes, repair, light, exposure etc. are applied, but noise reduction not or only partly. It seems that the process is not/partly applied, when calculating the embedded jpeg in the raw picture (view mode) and in the exported jpeg file. The effect is not effectivly visible in ISO100/200 raw pictures.

    under following link I stored an example for 2 screen shots of the same picture in develope mode (raw) and in View mode after saving. The later is nearly similar to the result in exported jpeg in maximum quality (not the best picture, but you will see it on first sight):
    http://www.365.acdsee.com/folders_pu...lderid=2162334

    Is this a bug? Any idea how to deal with this?

    If this is real and not a bug then ACDSee has the worst noise reduction of all raw converters/developers I ever used. I use ACDSee since nearly 20 years, but this would be the end. I hope there are ideas to fix this.

    regards
    Markus
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