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  • xmp- and original-files in hidden directory???

    When my ACDSee crashed tonight and the file I was working on disappeared mysteriously I've searched for it. And found something strange: The File was still there but it was hidden. Okay that might be due to the crash, but what really puzzled me: In every directory was a hidden Subdirectory "[Originaldateien]" (= Original files). For each File I've worked on with ACDSee there is a copy of the Original File and the xmp-File in this Directory ….

    I don't know if there is anything wrong in my configuration but that is absolutely stupid. 1st it costs lots of Space. My Archive is already getting near 4 TB - if ACD doubles every file ….

    So far my understanding of nondestructive working was: The Original file stays as it is. The Changes are stored in a database or a xmp-file.

    But ACD saves the "destructed" files and hides the original together with the xmp-file in a hidden directory? Doesn't make sense to me. And is pretty dangerous. In case you change or clean up the storage you might easily loose the hidden Informations …

    To say the least, I don't feel comfortable with that … anyone has a soothing answer?

    Kind regards,
    Conrad

  • #2
    Conrad

    If you read the help file https://help.acdsystems.com/en/acdse...Highlight=save it will give you an understanding of the various methods of saving files in ACDSee. Some methods use xmp sidecar files, some don't.

    The saving of the [originals] allow for the use of the "Restore to original" option. There are times when changes don't work out to be what we thought we wanted.

    If you refer to the help file https://help.acdsystems.com/en/acdse...nced%20filters
    you will see that you can choose to have the [Developed] and [Originals] folders and files, and the xmp files show or not show in ACDSee's Folders tree.

    When you opt to use any Asset Management system, it can only do its job if you let it manage. As part of that management ACDSees keeps xmp files linked to their parent files, and maintains the [Originals] and [Developed] folders and files. If you opt to copy, delete or move files outside of the control of the asset manager, those links can be lost, and orphan folders and file entries can be left in the database.

    If you don't want to generate these management files, and you don't want to be able to come back later and tweak any changes you have made to images, then simply make your changes and use the export dialog to export a copy of the edited files with a different name, or with a suffix, in what ever format your choose, and leave the original source file unchanged.

    Hope that helps.

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    • #3
      Thank you Greyfox and @Emil

      and my apologies for answering pretty late.

      The Links have been really helpful for the understanding of how ACDSee works - but sorry to say that, I still feel very uncomfortable. Every Program has it's good and bad sides. I don't agree, that it is a good idea, to leave everything up to ACDSee. And I definitely don't like systems that try to hide too much - especially a rather laborious way of faking "non destructive working".

      I've chosen ACDSee as a raw-developer and Photo Editing Software. I don't like the idea, that it is forcing me into Asset-Managing. In this regard Lightroom was much better. Of course there are other respects that made me quitt LR – but seems I have to keep on searching or accepting these disadvantages of ACDSee – we'll see.

      Emil : My Quarantine Files are empty.


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      • #4
        If you don't need asset management (DAM) then Gemstone might be a better option. It's basically Develop and Edit modes without DAM. I for one have learned to appreciate an original saved that follows wherever you may move the edited version. It comes pretty handy at times and simplifies what I used to have to do manually.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Conrad View Post
          ...I've chosen ACDSee as a raw-developer and Photo Editing Software. I don't like the idea, that it is forcing me into Asset-Managing.
          ACDSee is primarily Asset Manager software with (depending on version) RAW development and Photo Edit capability. If you don't want Asset Management, then it might not be the best choice for you. As Regor250 has suggested ADCSee's Gemstone is one alternative and there are others (for instance Affinity Photo) that provides both RAW development and Layer editing without any asset management..

          If you spend some time though with ACDSee's asset management system, I'm sure you will grow to appreciate its considerable advantages.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Greyfox View Post
            If you spend some time though with ACDSee's asset management system, I'm sure you will grow to appreciate its considerable advantages.
            Thank you Regor250 and Greyfox

            What I need is an alternative to Lightroom. I hope I find some time to take a closer look at Gemstone, but not sure - at first sight it seems to be rather an alternative to Photoshop.

            What I still don't understand, why does ACDSee Ultimate waste so much Diskspace. Just found a simple eyample. A few weeks ago I've brightend up a few snapshots from a class reunion. 20 jpgs original size 28 MB. The finished pictures took 92 MB + the original file in the hidden directory, that adds up to more then four times of the original space. And, no layers, just some trimming, brightning, redeye reduction, no big deal. I'd bet Lightroom would not have needed 10 MB aditional space to save the changes ...

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            • #7
              Conrad

              How you choose to save images in ACDSee is entirely up to you. If you are working with JPG's you can "Export" an "edited" JPG at what ever quality setting you want. You don't have to save your individual changes in a non destructive manner so they can be tweaked later if you don't want to. You don't have to have the [Originals] folder. You can make your changes and Export the changed JPG's at what ever level of compression you are happy with, and that even allows you to have the exported file size less than that of the original (trading off higher compression against reducing quality).

              Comment


              • #8
                I want to edit my photos and also see this edited version in Acdsee (in Manage view).
                So my only option is to "Save". The original file is then moved to the hidden folder (original file) and the edited version comes to the original file path.
                On the one hand, a lot of storage space is required here. One file is originally 5.7MB and the edited version (just using the Saturation slider in the Develop module) is 10.8MB.
                So almost twice the size!
                Everyone can then calculate the size to which their image archive will grow (image archive x2).
                Apart from this way of working, there is another disadvantage for me.
                I use other software that also works with catalogs and accesses the same folder structure.
                If I now work with Acdsee and the original jpg file is moved to the "Original File" folder, my other software can no longer find the file because the storage location is no longer correct/existing (the edited Acdsee version is then displayed in On1, since the file name is still the same).
                Last edited by peter09; 04-29-2022, 07:30 AM.

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                • #9
                  The [Originals] exist to be able to return to your original file at any time within AC. If you are sure you don't need this original file any more you may select your edited file in AC and go to "Process - Commit Changes" in the main menu or the context menu. This will delete the original file.

                  If you want to commit changes for all files you may use the search pane and search for all "image edited" files. Then select all found files and invoke "Commit Changes". However, I guess in your case the search will also find lots of orphans 😁

                  Originally posted by peter09 View Post
                  If I now work with Acdsee and the original jpg file is moved to the "Original File" folder, my other software can no longer find the file because the storage location is no longer correct/existing (the edited Acdsee version is then displayed in On1, since the file name is still the same).
                  Mounting a Formula 1 engine into a DeLorean will also need a few additional changes . . . You should use one DAM; using several is belt plus braces.

                  Last edited by Emil; 04-29-2022, 11:44 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Greyfox


                    Sorry, that I come back to this discussion pretty late. You said:

                    >How you choose to save images in ACDSee is entirely up to you.

                    Well that is my problem! I want to choose TRUE non destructive image processing, which is
                    • leaving the Original File unchanged and
                    • storing the changes in a database or xmp-file or whatsoever (but not redundant data in a complete picture-file!)
                    From what I understand now, ACDSee is not capable of managing true undestructive image processing.

                    >You don't have to save your individual changes in a non destructive manner so they can be tweaked later if you don't want to.

                    But that is the point: ACDSe only gives me the choice to either
                    • accept, that I loose my original file or
                    • save it, at the cost of excessive waste of storage space, due to a highly redundant and ineffective data processing, or
                    • loose the changes (except the exported result of course)
                    Correct? I'm afraid it is. In German we would say, thats a choice between "Teufel und Beelzebub" (a choice only betweeen bad alternatives) ...


                    Emil peter09

                    Peter and me have the same problem. We want powerful picture-processing, but no or only part of the DAM-functions. That is another big disadvantage compared to Lightroom. In LR you could pick what you need and disregard the rest - in ACDSee it is rather all or nothing - well of course as Greyfox pointed out you could stick to export the result and dump everything else, but ... see above.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I found this issue a little tricky, but here's my workflow in case it helps:

                      1. Make adjustments in Develop mode.
                      2. Save a snapshot of the edits. This data is written to the .xmp file.
                      3. Export the image to the location of my choice.
                      4. Navigate to the export folder (discarding changes when asked) and select me image to commit changes - this will delete the Originals folder created there.

                      Hope this is informative.
                      Last edited by AliGW; 08-27-2022, 11:00 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Conrad

                        There is no one way of achieving non destructive processing. Any method that leaves the source image unchanged and all changes made fully reversible achieves the definition of non destructive processing.

                        ACDSee's Develop mode does indeed provide non destructive image processing.

                        For RAW images it does leave the original file RAW file unaltered, with any changes stored in an xmp side car file. Those changes can be revisited and tweaked, or completely reversed.

                        For JPG images Develop mode (depending on how you choose to use it) retains the original image unchanged with the again adjustments placed in an xmp sidecar file. And again any changes made can be tweaked or completely reversed.

                        With RAW files, you may not like the way ACDSee places the additional image in the [Developed] folder, and with JPG files, you may not like the way the original and its sidecar file is placed in an [Originals] folder, and a working copy with the changes made placed in the source folder, but that is the way ACDSee works, and has done for quite some time.

                        There will probably always be some who wish that one application functioned more like another. The reality is that we have to chose the applications we use based on what they are at the time, and whether overall they do what we need in a manner that we can be comfortable with.. If I'm not comfortable with the way an application works, and there is another application that does what I need in a way I'm more comfortable with, then I will go with the one that I am more comfortable with.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks AliGW

                          In No. 2. you mean xmp-files, not EXIF- right?
                          To be honest, I don't understand exactly what you are doing, but I will try later on.


                          Thanks Greyfox again!

                          >There is no one way of achieving non destructive processing.

                          That's why I've had added "true" – the way ACDSee does it, has big disadvantages and definitely no advantage at all. It's not about me wishing "that one application functioned more like another." It's about unnecessary redundancies of Data. (Sorry I'm working in software-development for 20 years - not as a programmer, but the ... uuups, no idea how to say it in English ... well the one who tells the programmers, what the program should do. Usability and efficiency are very dear to me ;-)

                          >Any method that leaves the source image unchanged

                          To be precisely, ACDSee doesn't leave the source image completely unchanged – it changes the read only-flag to true and moves the file to a hidden folder. I agree these are not severe changes – but if you don't know about that you won't find these files without the help of ACDSee – that's a another thing I don't like, if software builds up unnecessary dependencies (and maybe your backup-Software misses these files too …).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In No. 2. you mean xmp-files, not EXIF- right?
                            Yes - sorry, I mean .xmp!

                            To be honest, I don't understand exactly what you are doing, but I will try later on.
                            It took me a while to settle on a workflow that suited me. I don't like the ACDSee method and it took me several attempts (with help from people here) to understand it. I now have a system that allows me to see which RAW files I have developed - saving a snapshot leaves a circular icon on the thumbnail, and I find this useful.

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