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  • ACDSee Keywords/metadata questions.

    Most of my metadata historically was entered in Lightroom. In ACDSee, I have a custom metadata tab I use frequently that only displays Title, Description, and Keywords from the IPTC tab. This works well for me, but recently, I began looking at the Keywords section under the Organize tab. But this seems restricted to only the ACDSee metadata. My first question is whether this is an option somewhere. I've dug through the menus but can't find anything.

    My second question, is why is there a separate ACDSee metadata section? What is the value or use other than locking you into the software - which is something I avoid with any software package.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by dbvirago View Post
    Most of my metadata historically was entered in Lightroom. In ACDSee, I have a custom metadata tab I use frequently that only displays Title, Description, and Keywords from the IPTC tab. This works well for me, but recently, I began looking at the Keywords section under the Organize tab. But this seems restricted to only the ACDSee metadata. My first question is whether this is an option somewhere. I've dug through the menus but can't find anything.

    My second question, is why is there a separate ACDSee metadata section? What is the value or use other than locking you into the software - which is something I avoid with any software package.
    Put as simply as I can, The IPTC standard (and IPTC metadata) is all about standardised classification of material. ACDSee metadata is in my view more about functionality within ACDsee.

    There is some overlap which allows some ACDSee metadata fields to be copied to their IPTC counterpart fields, but also some differences. For instance ACDSee keywords support Hierarchical arrangement, IPTC Keywords don't. ACDSee categories can be user created (can be anything the user wants), and again supports Hierarchical arrrangement. Categories in IPTC are from a fixed listing and again are not Hierarchical.

    Functions like rating or color labeling are provided by ACDSee metadata. ACDSee's face detection uses ACDSee metadata, not IPTC..
    Conversely ACDSee's reverse geocode inserts the information directly into IPTC metadata fields.

    In terms of workflow, for ease of use and convenience within ACDSee , I assign ACDSee ratings, Labels, custom categories, keywords, Captions, Notes, face detection etc and I always embed the ACDSee metadata in all of my images (or in the xmp sidecar files for RAW images).

    To provide some degree of identification outside of ACDSee I use a custom metadata preset to copy where applicable ACDC Metadata fields to IPTC fields. I also have a metadata preset that fills in IPTC contact details, and copyright notices. IPTC metadata is automatically added to the images when the Enter key is pressed or the apply button clicked.

    In the event one needs to rebuild a database, having the metadata embedded in the images allows the database to be reconstructed from the embedded metadata. The catalog process can recover what ever IPTC and Exif information is in the image, (within the subset IPTC fields that ACDSee uses).. But to rebuild user defined Categories, Hierarchical keyword listings, People listings (Face ID) requires that ACDSee metadata to have been embedded.

    You can opt to use, or not use what ever functions you like, ACDsee gives you that flexibility. If you choose not to use anything that is proprietary because it may "lock you into the software", then that is your choice, but you stand to lose a considerable amount of the benefits the software can provide.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you for the detailed and thorough explanation as always GreyFox. I will dig into the ACDSee Metadata further.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Greyfox View Post

        Put as simply as I can, The IPTC standard (and IPTC metadata) is all about standardised classification of material. ACDSee metadata is in my view more about functionality within ACDsee.

        There is some overlap which allows some ACDSee metadata fields to be copied to their IPTC counterpart fields, but also some differences. For instance ACDSee keywords support Hierarchical arrangement, IPTC Keywords don't. ACDSee categories can be user created (can be anything the user wants), and again supports Hierarchical arrrangement. Categories in IPTC are from a fixed listing and again are not Hierarchical.

        Functions like rating or color labeling are provided by ACDSee metadata. ACDSee's face detection uses ACDSee metadata, not IPTC..
        Conversely ACDSee's reverse geocode inserts the information directly into IPTC metadata fields.

        In terms of workflow, for ease of use and convenience within ACDSee , I assign ACDSee ratings, Labels, custom categories, keywords, Captions, Notes, face detection etc and I always embed the ACDSee metadata in all of my images (or in the xmp sidecar files for RAW images).

        To provide some degree of identification outside of ACDSee I use a custom metadata preset to copy where applicable ACDC Metadata fields to IPTC fields. I also have a metadata preset that fills in IPTC contact details, and copyright notices. IPTC metadata is automatically added to the images when the Enter key is pressed or the apply button clicked.

        In the event one needs to rebuild a database, having the metadata embedded in the images allows the database to be reconstructed from the embedded metadata. The catalog process can recover what ever IPTC and Exif information is in the image, (within the subset IPTC fields that ACDSee uses).. But to rebuild user defined Categories, Hierarchical keyword listings, People listings (Face ID) requires that ACDSee metadata to have been embedded.

        You can opt to use, or not use what ever functions you like, ACDsee gives you that flexibility. If you choose not to use anything that is proprietary because it may "lock you into the software", then that is your choice, but you stand to lose a considerable amount of the benefits the software can provide.
        I've noticed that the creator and copy right notice generated by my camera and embedded into the RAW files, are not showing up in ACDSee IPTC fields. Are you saying I would need to reconstruct that information manually or through a preset of some kind? Am I misunderstanding what you said above?

        Hector

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by hectorsm View Post

          I've noticed that the creator and copy right notice generated by my camera and embedded into the RAW files, are not showing up in ACDSee IPTC fields. Are you saying I would need to reconstruct that information manually or through a preset of some kind? Am I misunderstanding what you said above?

          Hector
          The question is exactly where is your camera writing that information to, and whether it is not showing in ACDSee at all, or just not where you are expecting to see it..
          It could be in the Exif Metadata. Exif contains standard fields for "Camera Owners Name", "Artist", and "Copyright".

          If you like to post a WeTransfer link to one of the RAW images from your camera, I'll have a look at how it is being stored.

          It may be possible to use a Metadata Preset to take the information from Exif (if that is where it is) and write it to either IPTC or ADCSee metadata, or both.
          For instance the Exif:Camera Owners Name, or the Exif:Image:Artist field content can be transferred to IPTC Creator, and to ACSsee Author fields using a preset, and the same preset could transfer the Exif: Copyright field to IPTC Copyright Notice. As above one needs to positively establish where your camera is putting that information.

          Another alternative is that in most instances,as the owner of the camera, you would probably always be the "Creator", and you might prefer the copyright notice to be in a specific form, for example "Copyright Fred Blogs 2022 - all rights reserved" and you might also want to include Rights Usage details. You can create a custom Metadata Preset in ACDSee Ultimate that embeds that in the IPTC allocated fields, and you can then embed that in an image or a group of images with basically a couple of clicks.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Greyfox View Post
            If you like to post a WeTransfer link to one of the RAW images from your camera, I'll have a look at how it is being stored.
            If you prefer to look into your files yourself try Exiftool.
            Code:
            exiftool filenname.ext -G1
            on CLI will list all tags and their location in the file.

            Comment


            • #7
              My other program will display this information in the IPTC section. Below if the complete EXIF using Exiftool. I don't see the copy right name showing up anywhere
              .
              EXIF data for DSC_1844.txt

              Click image for larger version  Name:	ACDSee Metada for DSC_1844.png Views:	0 Size:	12.2 KB ID:	59023 Click image for larger version  Name:	Exif for DSC_1844.png Views:	0 Size:	47.3 KB ID:	59024 Click image for larger version  Name:	Makers Note for DSC_1844.png Views:	0 Size:	38.9 KB ID:	59025 Click image for larger version  Name:	IPTC for DSC_1844.png Views:	0 Size:	37.3 KB ID:	59026
              Attached Files
              hectorsm
              Member
              Last edited by hectorsm; 01-12-2022, 04:15 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                That's because you need to specify which EXIF info you wish to see:

                Then specify what Metadata View you want to see:

                Click image for larger version  Name:	Capture.jpg Views:	1 Size:	59.8 KB ID:	59029

                Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	26.8 KB
ID:	59030​​​
                Regor250
                Senior Member
                Last edited by Regor250; 01-12-2022, 04:49 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Regor250 View Post
                  That's because you need to specify which EXIF info you wish to see:

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	Capture.jpg Views:	3 Size:	59.8 KB ID:	59029
                  Thanks, Regor250. I also found a built-in preset that says "All EXIF" that will allow me to see everything.

                  It appears ACDSee is choosing to do things very differently than most other editor. Those two items are more commonly displayed in the IPTC section. ACDSee even has those two fields in the IPTC section by default but they're empty which is very confusing.

                  Hector

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I might be the other way around as ACDSee has been around longer than many of these other popular softwares!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hectorsm View Post

                      It appears ACDSee is choosing to do things very differently than most other editor. Those two items are more commonly displayed in the IPTC section
                      ACDSee even has those two fields in the IPTC section by default but they're empty which is very confusing.
                      If the camera was actually putting the two items in question into the standard IPTC fields, then I would expect ACDSee to show it in those IPTC fields, as it does correctly show information actually in those fields.

                      If the camera is actually putting the two items in the standard EXIF fields, then ACDSee displays it as Exif metadata, and not as IPTC. (and arguably to show it as IPTC would be to mislead as to the type of metadata it is in the source file).

                      I can confirm that for Canon .CR2 files, metadata from Exif-IFD0:Artist, Exif-IFD0: Copyright, and Exif-IFD:OwnerName are being shown correctly in ACDSee in the "All Exif" metadata, and not in IPTC metadata. The sample Raw files I have from a Sony A7 MK3 don't have those three fields, but do have an Exif-IFD: UserComment. That is also shown in ACDSee's "All Exif" metadata in the User Comment field.

                      It perhaps helps to read the EXIF, IPTC and XMP (Now ISO 16684-1:2019) standards to see what their individual intentions and recommendations are for the various metadata items, but whilst these are internationally recognized standards, AFAIK it is not compulsory for any device manufacturer or any software developer to use them in full or in part. It is more a matter of describing how individual fields or tags should be used, if they are used.

                      That said, In my experience:-
                      EXIF is more commonly used for metadata added by a "device". In this case the camera.
                      IPTC is more commonly used for metadata added to classify a document or image. It would mostly be added by post processing software.

                      So I would expect ex camera files to be more likely to put this particular information in EXIF and I personally would not expect post processing software to automatically transfer EXIF information to IPTC fields.

                      Again, it is necessary to know what metadata is actually being inserted by the camera.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Greyfox View Post
                        If the camera was actually putting the two items in question into the standard IPTC fields, ...
                        Do you know a camera that fills IPTC tags. AFAIR I've never seen one.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Emil View Post
                          Do you know a camera that fills IPTC tags. AFAIR I've never seen one.
                          No neither have I. That was rather the point. For those fields to show by default as IPTC, the software would have to be by default copying Exif metadata to IPTC metadata, and ACDSee doesn't do that.

                          Actually I have a number of digital camera's that don't output any of those particular fields at all.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Greyfox View Post

                            If the camera was actually putting the two items in question into the standard IPTC fields, then I would expect ACDSee to show it in those IPTC fields, as it does correctly show information actually in those fields.

                            If the camera is actually putting the two items in the standard EXIF fields, then ACDSee displays it as Exif metadata, and not as IPTC. (and arguably to show it as IPTC would be to mislead as to the type of metadata it is in the source file).

                            I can confirm that for Canon .CR2 files, metadata from Exif-IFD0:Artist, Exif-IFD0: Copyright, and Exif-IFD:OwnerName are being shown correctly in ACDSee in the "All Exif" metadata, and not in IPTC metadata. The sample Raw files I have from a Sony A7 MK3 don't have those three fields, but do have an Exif-IFD: UserComment. That is also shown in ACDSee's "All Exif" metadata in the User Comment field.

                            It perhaps helps to read the EXIF, IPTC and XMP (Now ISO 16684-1:2019) standards to see what their individual intentions and recommendations are for the various metadata items, but whilst these are internationally recognized standards, AFAIK it is not compulsory for any device manufacturer or any software developer to use them in full or in part. It is more a matter of describing how individual fields or tags should be used, if they are used.

                            That said, In my experience:-
                            EXIF is more commonly used for metadata added by a "device". In this case the camera.
                            IPTC is more commonly used for metadata added to classify a document or image. It would mostly be added by post processing software.

                            So I would expect ex camera files to be more likely to put this particular information in EXIF and I personally would not expect post processing software to automatically transfer EXIF information to IPTC fields.

                            Again, it is necessary to know what metadata is actually being inserted by the camera.
                            Attached below is the EXIF file. My old Nikon D600 does not generate IPTC metadata as far as I know so everything is stored in the EXIF.

                            Since I'm able to see the full EXIF using the "All EXIF" option, I'm okay with that. I come from using Lightroom and I also have DXO PL and ON1 which they all display those fields in the IPTC section and not in the EXIF. That's why seeing the blank fields in ACDSee through me off.

                            Hector
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Emil View Post
                              Do you know a camera that fills IPTC tags. AFAIR I've never seen one.
                              I don't know how many cameras out there, support IPTC. Probably very few of them. A quick search came up with these two.

                              Nikon D6
                              https://nps.nikonimaging.com/technic...IPTC_metadata/

                              Nikon Z9
                              https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com...ide_06_20.html

                              Hector

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