Keyword and Tags confusing me. Tags are visible in windows but not in ACDsee

[Riverboat2001]

In another program i have assigned keywords, and then embedded them.
In windows, they show as tags in the files properties under the details tab.

In ACDsee the tags show in IPTC Keywords field, but are not picked up by and shown in the ACDsee metadata field.

What is the difference, when is a keyword not a keyword?

Going forward, if I decide to use ACDsee for my image management, where and how do i add keywords so that I can see them in another program.

Keywords. Tags, Categories, IPTC, ACDsee metadata. Collections........So confusing really need a video workshop on this.

What is best practice for data management?

[mogle]

Emil added some very good comments on the discussion below.

https://forum.acdsee.com/forum/main-category/acdsee-ultimate/52013-feature-request-option-to-chose-between-acdsee-keywords-and-iptc-keywords

There are several discussions on this subject. At first, it sounds easy, when you get down to the details, not so simple. Some advice and recommendation on when you should use what and the benefit and disadvantages would be good. Saying that - setting things up depends on what type of picture you got, volume, what type of search criteria you would like to search for. There is no solution that will fit all. Everyone's requirements are different.

[Colorworks]

I found this confusing too.

I will only answer to the part I understand. The IPTC data moves with the image and is public info read by many programs. However the ACDSee Database info including keywords is only read by ACDSee and is not public. But IPTC keywords are public.

So you could make notes for yourself about the image in the ACDSee metadata section and they will be private. However, putting the same notes in the IPTC section would make them public.

[Greyfox]

So you could make notes for yourself about the image in the ACDSee metadata section and they will be private. However, putting the same notes in the IPTC section would make them public.

If you embed the ACDSee metadata in the images (and I strongly recommend you do as it may be the saving grace if your database gets corrupted), then the ACDSee Captions, Author, Notes, Keywords, Labels, Ratings, Categories, Collections, Face Recognition details are all embedded in the images as XMP metadata, and can easily be read by anyone using products such as ExifTools, as can the IPTC metadata.

[Colorworks]

If you embed the ACDSee metadata in the images (and I strongly recommend you do as it may be the saving grace if your database gets corrupted), then the ACDSee Captions, Author, Notes, Keywords, Labels, Ratings, Categories, Collections, Face Recognition details are all embedded in the images as XMP metadata, and can easily be read by anyone using products such as ExifTools, as can the IPTC metadata.

That's not what I had read here before.

There's another aspect to the discussion of ACDSee Categories compared to the IPTC keywords. IPTC keywords are public, meaning anyone who has access to the file can easily view the keywords and any other IPTC meta-data, with just about any viewer (I'm referring specifically to jpegs). The ACDSee categories are private as long as they only reside in the ACDSee database. This is a distinction that Peter Krogh points out in his excellent book "The DAM Book" which is a good read for those interested in such subjects. (DAM referring to Digital Asset Management).

https://forum.acdsee.com/forum/main-...es-vs-keywords

So thank you for that clarification Greyfox.

[Greyfox]

Colorworks

I don't see there is any conflict in the posts.

MichaelWPresley refers to the ACDSee categories being private "as long as they only reside in the ACDSee database" (which means as long as you don't embed them in the images) and certainly if you embed metadata in images and let those images out into the wild, then none of the metadata is really private.

On the other hand, if you don't embed the metadata in your images, and you rely entirely on only having it in a local database, then if that database is lost (and backups are either not current, or non existent), or down the track you maybe want to use a different DAM then you can't build a database from the embedded image metadata. That choice is up to each individual user.

In my view, the convenience of having the metadata embedded in the images, and being able to recover the ACDSee metadata from that embedded metadata outweighs the inconvenience of removing some or all of it from any images I send out into the wild.

It is perhaps somewhat similar to the issue of images being taken with camera's or smart phones that have inbuilt GPS receivers. Some users will opt to keep the GPS function for the camera turned off, so it is not possible for anyone to use embedded GPS metadata to determine the location the photo was taken. I personally want the benefit of being able confirm where my images were taken. Again for any images that are destined for the wild where that might be an issue, removal of the GPS metadata is quite simple.

In ACDSee's Manage mode, selecting Tools\Metadata\Remove opens a dialog that allow the user to remove the metadata from copies of the images that you want to sent out into the wild.



The GPS metadata is embedded as EXIF metadata, so in ACDSee if you want to remove GPS metadata have to remove both EXIF and IPTC.

In ExifToolGUI (which can be run as an external editor from ACDSee), there is more control of metadata removal.

[Rau]

If you embed the ACDSee metadata in the images (and I strongly recommend you do as it may be the saving grace if your database gets corrupted), then the ACDSee Captions, Author, Notes, Keywords, Labels, Ratings, Categories, Collections, Face Recognition details are all embedded in the images as XMP metadata, and can easily be read by anyone using products such as ExifTools, as can the IPTC metadata.

What I've noticed is that one DAM product often doesn't present the metadata stored by another DAM product (though various metadata reading tools can). Seems especially true of People details - which is a pretty big nuisance if moving from one DAM to another after having specified thousands of faces/people in the previous product!

[Greyfox]

What I've noticed is that one DAM product often doesn't present the metadata stored by another DAM product .

If I were to somehow download the data from a BMW vehicle's management system, and somehow upload it into a Ford vehicle management system, I doubt the result would be good, maybe not work at all, even though they are both vehicle management systems

In ACDSee there are sub-sets of the most accepted IPTC and EXIF standard tags, and there is also proprietary ACDSee metadata that is necessary to provide functionality within the application. One might expect some commonality in presentation and use of IPTC and EXIF, but it's not realistic to expect that for proprietary metadata.

Unfortunately though not all applications use the same sub-set of IPTC tags. And to further complicate things, not all applications stick strictly to the naming of some IPTC tags.

The use of some EXIF tags also varies. Image editing applications like ACDSee, Photoshop, Gimp, and Luminar 4 for example update the EXIF [IFD0] Software tag when an image is modified using them (that's what the field is for), but Affinity Photo for some reason chooses to leave that field unchanged, and instead uses the XMP-xmpMM History Software Agent tag. Not wrong perhaps, but different, and unfortunately the History Software Agent tag is not currently supported by ACDSee, or Windows 10 either).

Face identification in ACDSee uses proprietary metadata (XMP-acdsee-rs Regions). Other applications may choose to import that metadata (as ACDSee does with the import of Lightroom or Picassa Face Data in the Catalog Files process), or they may not.

I personally don't expect all proprietary metadata (such as some of the ACDSee metadata) to be handled properly, or even at all, by other applications, or for ACDSee to handle all proprietary metadata from other applications. That sort of requirement would severely restrict development.

[Rau]

Face identification in ACDSee uses proprietary metadata (XMP-acdsee-rs Regions). Other applications may choose to import that metadata (as ACDSee does with the import of Lightroom or Picassa Face Data in the Catalog Files process), or they may not.

Yes, I appreciate the problem. I've used 3 different DAMs (Windows Photogallery, Daminion & ACDSee) that all include face recognition, all using their own schema. Tagging people in photos is such a commonplace need, it's a pity no single standard has evolved.